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編者按：國外專家學者“齊魯訪學駐研計劃”是為貫徹落實習近平主席提出的全球文明倡議，深化文明交流互鑒，由山東省委宣傳部指導，尼山世界儒學中心、中國孔子基金會、山東大學共同發起，山東出版集團大力支持，立足山東儒家文化資源富集優勢，架設國際人文交流合作橋梁的一項重要舉措。

近日，“齊魯訪學駐研計劃”學者、意大利聯合校園大學副教授杜斯佩（Giuseppe Ginepro）接受中國孔子網專訪，分享其對中西文化交流的感悟和見解。

“齊魯訪學駐研計劃”學者、意大利聯合校園大學副教授杜斯佩（Giuseppe Ginepro）

Q:How did you establish a connection with Chinese culture? What do you think is the most attractive trait of Chinese culture to you?

中國孔子網：您是如何與中國文化建立聯系的？你認為中國文化最吸引人的特質是什么？

ANS:The multiplicity of aspects that attracted me to the study of Chinese culture ranges from the insight and profundity of Confucian and Daoist philosophy to the interest in society and history in China. The dialogical relations with different civilizations were one of the aspects which occupied much of my studies since my early engagement in Chinese political philosophy. The diversity and uniqueness of Chinese heritage impressed me from an all-round perspective, the fine arts, the richness in reflection as well as in applied thinking. My first encounter was with Late Confucianism, a practical wisdom for scholar-officials inspired by the ideals of Song-Ming Lixue. But the brightness of the sources of Chinese civilization dragged me from the modern and the medieval (especially Tang and Song) to the early stages of Chinese history and culture, and so from Zeng Guofan to Zhu Xi, Zhou Dunyi, Mengzi and the Yijing. After that, seeking to familiarize with the roots of Chinese thought, I tried to reconnect, as Confucius would say, all I learned in “one thread passing all through”. I was fascinated by the idea that Chinese Ancient Civilization could still be a great power for today's China, displaying wisdom in all directions. And at that point I began to read about Zhuangzi and Laozi, Han Fei and Xunzi, streams that I found equally insightful. I am convinced that the strongest traits of Chinese culture are still in the wisdom of matching particulars with the whole, in a holistic and situated understanding - sought from the origins to the time of Jin Yuelin and Feng Youlan, for instance.

杜斯佩：吸引我研究中國文化的有諸多方面，包括儒家和道家哲學的洞見和深度，還有我對中國社會和歷史的興趣。自從我早期從事中國政治哲學研究以來，與不同文明的對話關系是我大部分研究的一個方面。從全方位角度來看，中國遺產的多樣性和獨特性給我留下了深刻的印象，不僅是藝術，還帶有豐富的反思和應用型思維。我最早接觸的是晚期儒學，這是一種受宋明理學啟發形成的士大夫的實踐智慧。然而，中華文明源泉的光輝將我從現代和中世紀（尤其是唐宋）帶入到中國歷史文化的早期階段，因此我從曾國藩研究到朱熹、周敦頤、再到孟子和《易經》。在那之后，為了熟悉中國思想的根源，我試圖將我所學到的一切重新連貫起來，就像孔子所說的那樣“一以貫之”。中國古代文明仍然可以成就當今中國強國，并且在各個層面展示自身的智慧，我對此看法感到著迷。那時我開始閱讀關于莊子和老子、韓非和荀子的文章，我覺得這些流派同樣有見地。我堅信，中國文化最強大的特征仍然在于將細節與整體相匹配的智慧，在于對整體大局和個體位序的理解——這是從起初一直到金岳霖和馮友蘭時代都在尋求的理解。

Q: As a visiting scholar of the “Qilu Visiting Research Residency Program”, what are your expectations for visiting and studying in Shandong? If you are currently conducting a research residency, please share your feelings.

中國孔子網：作為“齊魯訪學駐研計劃”的訪問學者，您對來山東訪學有什么期望？如果您目前正在進行駐研，請分享您的感受。

ANS:While my research and visit are just to begin, I can express expectations on different sides. First, I am well impressed by the reach of Qilu culture and admire the potential that Confucius and Chinese cultural tradition can contribute to the hardest challenges the world is facing. From the great transitions - eco-environmental and digital - to the renovation of values and education, passing from global governance. Shandong has been so long the cradle of powerful ideas, that help us to understand and cope with these challenges that nearly every practical issue has been dealt in its philosophical heritage. Another point I think relevant to the Qilu experience and I profoundly support is the sentiment of admiration for the exemplarity of the values conveyed by the original framework which can be derived from ancient Chinese philosophy. Axiology and ontology are transformed into the discourse of zoetology and the study of wisdom, which open new avenues of learning and practice for the whole world. As a Qilu Visiting and Research scholar I not only personally support the exemplarity of thought and conduct, but I desire to contribute to the spread and translation of those values worldwide. The modernization and global civilization we now need lives in those values: it the responsibility of all philosophers and social scientists to upheld them. Personally, I would regret not being in first line for this noble enterprise.

杜斯佩：雖然我的研究和訪問才剛剛開始，但我可以從不同方面表達我的期許。首先，齊魯文化的影響力給我留下了深刻的印象，我很欽佩孔子和中國文化傳統可以為世界面臨的最嚴峻挑戰做出貢獻的潛力，包括從生態環境和數字化偉大轉型到價值觀和教育的革新，再到全球治理等方面。長期以來，山東一直是偉大思想的搖籃，這些思想幫助我們理解和應對各種挑戰，以至于幾乎所有實際問題都在中國的哲學遺產中得到了處理。我認為與齊魯經歷有關并且我深深支持的一點是，我對中國原初框架所傳達的價值觀之典范的欽佩之情，這種價值觀可以源自中國古代哲學。價值論和本體論被轉化為生生論和智慧研究的話語，為全世界開辟了新的學習和實踐途徑。作為齊魯訪問學者，我不僅個人支持這一思想和行為的典范框架，而且我希望為這些價值觀在世界范圍的傳播和轉化做出貢獻。我們現在需要的現代化和全球文明就存在于這些價值觀中：所有哲學家和社會科學家都有責任維護這些價值觀。就我個人而言，我很遺憾沒有成為這項崇高事業的第一線工作者。

Q: The theme of this year's Nishan Forum on World Civilizations is “Beauty in Diversity: Nurturing Understanding Among Civilizations for Global Modernization”. How do you understand the core meaning of this topic?

中國孔子網：今年尼山世界文明論壇的主題是“各美其美美美與共：培育不同文明之間的理解，促進全球現代化”。您如何理解這個主題的核心含義？

ANS:If beauty and order are the root of civilization, diversity represent the flourishing of its branches. Nurturing those branches takes both devotion, effort, and cultivation: all the practices which Chinese philosophy and culture refined over millennia. Established this metaphor for civilization and its flourishing we may ask how to relate the different branches of civilization. Understanding passes through the contact between branches but is accomplished only by returning to the essence of civilization. Beauty and order constitute the root as we asserted at the beginning of this reflection, so it is necessary to advance the cooperation for a common understanding of beauty and order and finally reach a common outlook for a shared future. It is not that the common root has yet to be developed, we only need to cultivate our consciousness of its existence. If we recognize the importance of self-conscious understanding of civilizations, then we will also endorse the commitment to a global modernization which spreads the consciousness of one common root and one common future for all human beings. Tu Weiming’s continuity of being we should all come to agree, does not only apply to heaven, earth and humanbeingsin the ontological way, but extends to thebecomingof the community of human beings and the entire world in a shared future. This modernization contributed to a holistic theory of cooperation, which I believe essential to the existence and flourishing of the world. For all this, the 11th Nishan Forum on World Civilizations gathers ideas and minds to address what we should call a turning point of world civilization - an ordering of parts into a whole, in a global setting weary of its distress and anxious tounite. Beauty in this sense is our harmonious unity.

杜斯佩：如果說美麗和秩序是文明的根源，那么多樣性則代表著文明枝條的繁榮。培育這些枝條需要奉獻、努力和修煉：這些都是中國哲學和文化幾千年來提煉出來的實踐之道。建立了文明及其繁榮后，我們可能會問如何將文明的不同分支聯系起來。我認為，相互理解是通過分支之間的接觸來實現的，但只有回歸文明的本質才能完成全部。正如我們在本次反思開始時所主張的那樣，美與秩序構成了根源，因此有必要推進合作，以達成對美與秩序的共同理解，并最終達成共同的未來觀。這并不是說共同根源還沒有被開發出來，我們只需要培養出對于它的存在意識。如果我們認識到對文明的自覺理解的重要性，那么我們也將支持對全球現代化的承諾，即傳播全人類的共同根源和共同的未來意識。杜維明的“存在連續性”認為我們都應該是一致的，不僅適用于天、地和人類的本體論，而且延伸到人類和整個世界在共同未來中的形成方式。這種現代化有助于形成整體合作理論，我認為這對世界的存在和繁榮至關重要。盡管如此，第 11 屆尼山世界文明論壇匯集了各種，以解決我們該稱之為世界文明轉折點的問題——大家在全球環境中厭倦了痛苦并渴望團結起來，將各個部分整合成一個整體。從這個意義上說，美是我們和諧的統一體。

Q: What positive role do you think the Nishan Forum on World Civilizations has played in promoting cultural exchange, mutual learning, and dialogue among civilizations?

中國孔子網：您認為尼山世界文明論壇在促進不同文明之間的文化交流、互鑒和對話方面發揮了哪些積極作用？

ANS:The Nishan Forum on World Civilizations represents the essential work of fostering dialogue and mutual learning among cultures through the impressive initiative it supports with resolute and continuative efforts. Combining academic and practitioners’ insight in an inseparable body, Nishan Forum cultivates the sentiments of cooperation, harmony and understanding at the base of the best projects for intercultural philosophy. Moreover, Nishan builds a discourse which I think pivotal for renewing and advancing human relations in a global framework. Tolerance and mutuality are only two of the thick concepts that the Forum enriches in their meaning and concreteness. Thought and action come together in Nishan not only to exchange insights, but also to take measures which deepen the spirit of learning that Qilu culture always defended. The intersections of wisdoms, the connection of thoughts, the combinations of form of life all radiate from this Forum. Improving mutual understanding among civilizations will demand to maintain and expand the Forum, with coordinated initiatives in all continents and engaging the widest array of stakeholders. Our common future unfolds in this dialogue of civilizations: Nishan Forum of World Civilizations therefore cultivates a dialogue of harmony and unity which I think the most relevant in all fields.

杜斯佩：尼山世界文明論壇代表了促進不同文化間對話和相互學習的重要工作，它以堅定而持續的努力，不斷支持令人印象深刻的倡議。尼山論壇將學術界和從業者的洞察力結合在一個不可分割的平臺中，在跨文化哲學的最佳的項目基礎上，培養合作、和諧和相互理解的情感。此外，尼山論壇構建了一種話語，我認為這對于在全球框架中更新和推進人際關系至關重要。寬容和互惠這兩個厚重的概念，在論壇中豐富了其意義和具體所指。思想和行動在尼山匯聚在一起，不僅是為了相互交流見解，也是為了努力加深齊魯文化一直捍衛的學習精神。智慧的交匯、思想的交匯、生命形式的組合，都從這個論壇中散發出來。增進不同文明之間的相互理解需要維護和擴大論壇，在各大洲采取協調一致的舉措，并吸引最廣泛的利益相關方進行參與。我們共同的未來在這場文明對話中展開：因此，尼山世界文明論壇促進了一場和諧與團結的對話，我認為這與各個領域都是相關的。

Q:This forum also has sub topics related to "Confucian culture, family ethics, traditional Chinese medicine culture, Confucian financial culture, water resource utilization and protection, artificial intelligence development, world cultural heritage protection and utilization". Have your academic research been involved? Please choose one to express your opinions.

中國孔子網：本屆論壇還設有“儒家文化、家風、中醫文化、儒家金融文化、水資源利用與保護、人工智能開發、世界文化遺產保護與利用”相關的分議題。您的學術研究是否參與其中？請選擇一個來表達您的意見。

ANS:Many sub-topics the forum addresses jointly interact with my research. Confucian culture, family ethics, artificial intelligence development, and world cultural heritage protection among the one’s referenced. I would like to briefly discuss the topic of artificial intelligence, since I did not touch in it in the other reflections. Generative AI impressed the public to a degree that few discoveries did in the past. The reason is that AI’s production does not replicate something we in fact comprehensively designed but generates from an input a completely new output. And this is not all, in a 2024 paper on “The Cartesian Society” I discuss the issue of predictability and human agency along with the AI empowered technology of network analysis. To my knowledge, no one made yet the connection in the global public discourse. AI technology not only seemingly acts as a rational individual, it can also smartly interact with a network of agency to predict what other actors will do - or even think. This is the skill at the basis of winning a chess match or targeting preferences online. No one considered another perspective to AI, what if AI could help us positively in building a community of minds and hearts that in conduct and in understanding converges on shared certainties instead than clashing on divisive contrasts. I am sure that polarization would benefit from a comprehensive interaction and connection, which seems now beyond the purpose of generative AI. I look to developments convinced that our dialogue on the theory and engagement in the practice is now more than necessary.

杜斯佩：論壇討論的許多子主題與我的研究是有互動的。儒家文化、家庭倫理、人工智能發展和世界文化遺產保護等都是我的參考。我想簡要討論一下人工智能的話題，因為我在其他反思中沒有涉及它。生成式 AI 給公眾留下了深刻的印象，其程度在過去很少能做到。原因是 AI 的生產并沒有復制我們現實中全面設計的東西，而是從輸入中生成一個全新的輸出。這還不是全部，在 2024 年一篇關于“笛卡爾社會”的論文中，我討論了可預測性和人類能動性的話題，以及 AI 賦能的網絡分析技術。據我所知，還沒有人在全球公共話語中建立相關聯系。人工智能技術不僅看起來是一個理性的個體，它還可以智能地與代理網絡進行互動，以預測其他行為者會做什么——甚至會怎么想。這是人工智能贏得國際象棋比賽或在線定位偏好的基礎技能。沒有人曾經考慮過人工智能的另一種觀點，即，如果人工智能可以積極地幫助我們建立一個思想和心靈的社區，在行為和理解上趨同于共同的確定性，而不是在分裂的對比上發生沖突，那會怎樣？我確信兩極分化將受益于全面的互動和聯系，這現在似乎超出了生成式 AI 的目的。我期待著事態發展，相信我們的理論對話和實踐參與都是非常必要的。

Q:Have you been invited to deliver a keynote speech on the forum? If so, could you briefly outline your core points and their connotations.

中國孔子網：您是否受邀在論壇上發表主題演講？如果是這樣，您能否簡要概述一下您的核心觀點及其內涵。

ANS:My talk would deal with Cultivating Harmony, Cultivating Beauty”, a framework to understand exemplarity in Chinese and analytic traditions as a global common strengthening prosperous development and building the essential mutuality of “co-becoming”.

杜斯佩：我的演講將涉及 Cultivating Harmony， Cultivating Beauty培育和諧培育美”，這是把中國的典范和分析傳統理解為一種全球共同的框架，加強繁榮發展，并建立“共生”的基本互惠關系。?